On 16 September 2017, we screened the film This Land My Land Eng-Land! (India 1990) Dir. Sanjay Kak, at the BFI London. Following the screening we held a panel discussion with Sanjay Kak, Rita Wolf, Farook Shamser and Professor Virinder Kalra (Chair) and audience.
"It's a film about rehearsals, isn't it"? is a transcript of
the discussion.
In the transcript words that were inaudible have been marked and note I
didn't catch the introduction by Virinder Kalra.
Tajender Sagoo, January 2018
Professor Virinder Kalra introduced the panel and
invited Rita Wolf to begin the discussion.
START
RITA WOLF: First of all
I'd like to acknowledge what a fantastic thing it is, 25 years plus on, that
the BFI are presenting this short retrospective of Sanjay's work, because that
is, in itself, extraordinary. I think he's an extraordinary filmmaker, he's sort
of unrelenting in…when he decides to make a film about something he'll... make
that film, and I've been very aware of his work even though I've lived out the
country for a number of years now. Whenever he passes through New York I see
bits of what he's working on and...I would just like to thank the BFI and I'd
like to thank Tajender for programming this weekend, and I think that's
something that couldn't have happened 25 years ago, and for that I'm very
proud.
Also, to your point
about the outsider's eye, in a way I think it... we were living it ... that was
our life. I think it takes an outsider's eye to put... to come into a
situation, find what they find interesting, or not interesting, and focus on
it, and that's what you did, so yeah.
VIRINDER KALRA: Do you want to talk about the first time you've seen it...
FAROOK SHAMSER: I say let's bring back the Jalebis, [inaudible] I think your mother and
father!
RITA WOLF: Yeah, I wish
I could, I wish I could. They're both passed now, but it was great to see them
again, and our neighbour, Carol Stanton – she's no longer with us but that
was... that was beautiful to see, yeah.
FAROOK SHAMSER: Yeah, so, ... it's... sometimes I'm hard to get in touch with, but this
is the first time I've ever seen the movie, ... Sanjay, the poor thing, spent
about two weeks following us, on the fly on the wall, and me and my brother's
impression was...... what are you gonna film? What is this about? We are who we
are, we have our identity, we do what we do. OK if you're interested – it's
just gonna be boring. But, at that time, we kind of thought it. But now it's
not, and it's great that you documented something like that and put the hard
work, painstakingly for two weeks I promise you, in London.
And dealing with my...
me and my brother and friends when we were young teenagers wasn't easy work, as
I mentioned. Sanjay... the first time I spoke to Sanjay, yesterday – we'd just
been in contact with each other – and… he mentioned, "Well, not much has
changed". I definitely think things have changed, and I'm so proud and
honoured to see so many Asian artists, musicians, children with
a cultural identity. To have Asian network, to have the BFI to promote these
things. It was a very, very different time then, when we lived before. And I
think we can thank everybody, everybody. It's not just Asian people, it's not
just people that have fought. There are people on the right hand of the side
with their heart, what I believe in, and they'll accept everything.
You know, why I
mentioned in the documentary a world music of fusion... it wasn't just about
Bengalis, we didn't want to represent Bhangra. Joi meant victory, so it's
victory to everybody, what we did. So the “I'm part of you, you are part of us”.
We create, we make music, we create peace and harmony – especially what we need
in this time of the world, now, with a lot of phobia that goes on. I have two
children, I want them to grow up... you said a very beautiful point, Rita,
that, you know, "I wish I had a role model then". And we all kind of
followed up to that. So, hopefully, now children – your children, our children,
everybody...
RITA WOLF: I hope so...
FAROOK SHAMSER: No matter... yeah, no matter creed, colour or race, that we unite and we
fuse each other, and to use art and music and... how can I explain it? It isn't
confidence, but just to be proud of who you are and where you come from. And
there's always gonna be a brick wall, I can say again, but, you know, we can
chip away at it. We have moved a lot, and it's a great honour now to see
[inaudible], you know, lots of Asians. Asians, Africans, anybody... you know,
anybody. It's just great that we broke down this kind of racist barrier, and
we've still got a long way to go. There's a very, very long way to go, but we
never ever stop. And with your love, and everybody else's love, and with great
people that facilitate, I think it's a great honour to be here today.
SANJAY KAK: Over lunch
Rita was asking me that, you know, how did-how did I end up working with the people
that we work with...... because obviously we met all kinds of people and, you
know, even in 1990, when I was researching the film... I mean, of course, Rita
was in a sense..... had already arrived, because she was in Coronation
Street, she had done My Beautiful Laundrette, but there are many other
Asians who had, in a sense...... made a place for themselves in the mainstream.
But, I think it was probably instinct that I was less interested in the people
who had made it.…. and much after I cut this film I showed it to a
friend who said, "It's a film about rehearsals, isn't it"?
And I'd never thought
of it, but it was so true, because actually I was disinterested in the performance.
I was not interested in the album that Joi Bangla produced, or the play that
HAC did or the film that she made. I was much more interested in the muddiness
and the stumbles and the awkwardnesses [sic] of the rehearsals of life, the
rehearsals of a construction of identity. And I think...... you know, as an
outsider, perhaps... whatever it means
to say that I'm an Indian – I don't know if I'm an Indian or a Kashmiri or what
of the many identities I carry – but it is true that the vulnerability that I
sensed in all the young people I met – a cultural vulnerability
– was new to me.
So, instinctively,
that was what I was interested in. That "Why are they so uncertain, don't
they know who they are? you know? I mean, to remind you of Peter Sellers
in The Party, you know, like, who do you think you are? We said,
"No, no, no, we are Indians, we know who we are". So, it was a little
bit like that, you know, you know, like I was wondering that "Why is there
so much, why is there such alot of...?"... I can sense a jitter underneath,
about everybody – about who they are, where they are, whether it works for
them, doesn't work for them. So I think,...and as I said in the beginning, that
the film was supported by Indian television, who thought it would be this
valorisation of the "How Indians have conquered the world". And they
were... appalled at the rough cut. You know like, they were
like, "Where are the doctors, and the lawyers, the successful people. And
why these guys?, you know?! Why not Hanif Kureishi, or Salman Rushdie, or, you
know...
And the only thing
that saved my butt was that I'd written a script, which pretty much said that
this is why I was interested in these people. So yeah, we got out of that one.
But it is a very strange film, I have to admit, even in terms of its form,
because clearly it's not a made-for-television film, although it was made
for television. So..... obviously one was..... sort of, quite insistent on..
transgressing and breaking whatever norms there were for what was expected of
us.
But it was also, for
me..... a means of trying to find a language for myself in filmmaking, where
you could deal with political subjects......in a cinematic language which was
not didactic, which did not, you know, hold you by an ear and drag you through
the territory of cultural representation and whatever else there was. But to
throw it at the audience in a structured way and let them read, you
know. So, when Virinder said that, you know, he... you know, he was wondering
what an audience in India would make of it... it didn't reach too many people,
because in the early nineties Doordarshan screened it only once, but those
it did reach totally got it, you know, which was, for me, at
that time, a very reassuring thing because we had tried something strange and
awkward and yet it had worked for people.
VIRINDER KALRA: Just before we open it up... I have two questions: one slightly serious
and one slightly silly, but for Rita it's gonna be the slightly serious
question, and that I think the vulnerability is captured quite amazingly, and I
was just wondering how you feel about seeing yourself, maybe now, a few years
on, a more mature... seeing yourself like that, in that... how does it come
across? Like, other than the kind of....
RITA WOLF: Yeah, we were
talking about this..... a little bit earlier when,... I must say I've seen the
film only once before and at the time, you know... Sanjay mentioned how I
responded to it the first time. Obviously years later removed..... I think part
of the reason that I like, I liked watching it the second time around was...
it's very clear to me. People see different things: I didn't understand the
rehearsal aspect of it and of course once you said it I completely got it, but I
and Kali-and my co-founder of Kali Theatre Company, Rukhsana Ahmad,
who is here today, so I'm thrilled. The company has been going for 25 plus
years at this point, and that was our very, very fledgling outing with our very
first play which was a play of Rukhsana 's, which I
directed. What I found really interesting is that.....my younger self in the
film...... was the only one who was facilitating that "next"
generation.
So I was in a
way... you went to Avtar at Sunrise and he said no, you go to people and they
say no. I was one of you saying "Yes! Yes! If you want to do something,
write the play – I'll see if we can get it put on". So
that... and I was slightly older, I think, then some of the younger people in
the film. So that, for me... and given the fact that the company exists now and
continues to pioneer new works, specifically for women, and women of South
Asian background...... gives me a real sense that my instincts about doing that
work were right at the time and they continue to be, because that continues to be
the kind of work that I love, whereas doing the film work and – God, all that make up and stuff... I mean, wow! you know, that isn't
really the kind of work that I love. I'm doing the kind of work that I
love now. And......and it was great to see me be able to bring
other people into my work...... that's really what I got from it. That's what I
enjoy, yeah.
VIRENDER KALRA: Well...... so the silly question is:
what's with the hat?
VIRENDER KALRA: Just in case no-one recognised...
FAROOK SHAMSER: Well, funnily enough...
VIRENDER KALRA: The hat is recognisable!
FAROOK SHAMSER: It
did have an Allahu on top, which at the time where there was no Islamophobia...
I wish I had it now, I'd wear it every day...
Just to say – it's not a bad thing, I'm just
respecting something at the top of the hat – but yeah,
yeah, the hat was... I mean, we have all come a long way, everybody. And-and I'd
like to thank everybody, just everybody, …for the work and the love and the
passion that they do. Recently my brother just received a blue plaque ahead
with Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. We put it on top of our shop in Brick Lane where we
made music 35 years ago with my father - my father was a flautist. You know, we're
hardcore at what we do and the funny hat yes, and please, bring back the Jalebis,
where are they?
RITA WOLF: Dead Jalebis, yeah
VIRINDER KALRA: Can we open it up to the audience? Not
that I can see the audience right now, but...
AUDIENCE Q1: Hi, my name is Suman Bhuchar, I've been
working in the arts and cultural field for like... 25, 30 years.
RITA WOLF: Hello, Suman.
AUDIENCE Q1: Hi there.... I might sound a little
harsh, but I need to express myself, I hope you'll bear with me. I'm always
very interested in explorations by Indians from India about our identity. You
know, I now feel it's like Midnight's Children’s perforated sheet, you know, when you
get a little bit of thing, you think it's that... and I feel that in your film
that really hasn't come across, you know. This may perhaps be because of the
way you've opted to not have a voiceover and give us a kind of a context and
you've let the... sort of... work in it speak for itself. But I feel that does
it a disservice, to the story.
Yet,
ironically, your piece now is an archive, because two of the people in there
have passed away, you know, and that is really sad to see... but I feel that
what hasn't come across is what the work the people were doing meant. I mean,
Rita Wolf is directing Sanctuary, it looks like a bit of rehearsal,
but Sanctuary was based a story of a real woman who ran away
from an abusive relationship and went into a refuge. You know, maybe a line of
explanation might have helped. I don't really know...
SANJAY KAK: I think there was that...
AUDIENCE Q1: Hang on, just allow me a last thing. I
don't really know why you've got Avtar Lit in there, because he ran a
commercial radio station and in a way his... ... it's interesting because I
don't think he gave you the space..... but you don't have that answer... so I
don't actually understand that juxtaposition in that context. Anyway, that's
all I wanted to say, thank you....
VIRINDER KALRA: Do you want to answer?
SANJAY KAK: So..... I will say that as a documentary
filmmaker I don't necessarily think that I always know what something means. I
can offer you...... I can open out a space for you, I can bring it to you in a
complex way, but I do not want to tell you that the real identity of the Asian
in Britain "is", because I don't know the answer, you know. If I knew
the answer, if I could put it in 5 lines, I would put it in. But as a filmmaker
I think my work is to construct an argument, an open argument, and hold your
attention.
And let me
tell you this: this might sound very perverse, but a dissatisfied audience is
not a problem for me, because I do want to trouble people with unfinished
rehearsals, you know. And Avtar Lit actually to me is very important because in
1990 in Southall, you couldn't budge an inch without hearing Sunrise Radio, you
know. He was a... on the street he was a big knob, and I wanted to show how
much of a disconnect... like, Avtar Lit was closer to Holle Holle and the
Hippodrome than he was to any of these people, you know.
And the fact
that he rejects these people actually was perfect for me, because that was the
old Asian cultural identity, what Avtar Lit represents. So, I don't know if it
comes through, but as a strand the radio station...... in fact, in my synopsis
of this film I always used to say that this is a film about three sets of
characters and a radio station...
SANJAY KAK: ... because the radio station was
everywhere
FAROOK SHAMSER: Absolutely
right, I support on everything that you say, but just to answer your question
as well, with Avtar Lit. Me and my brother where struggling in the East End,
never mind Bhangra, never mind anything else. And we must've tried – there were no mobile phones
– and we must have tried at least the best part of 6 months of
the year to get through to Sunrise Radio, to get through to Avtar to say
"Give us a show, give us a show"...... it was probably one of the...
the kind of main things that made us do the movie, 'cause he said he's got
Avtar Lit in. But he... you know, not to put him down – each one to their own – but we knew he was
gonna reject us, and he was absolutely wrong...
... but where we are
today is a very different place and, you know, he was wrong and I think you're
absolutely right of showing the fundamental parts of just Avtar Lit. And not
only to put Avtar Lit... ... down, actually just when you do documentaries... ...
you know, for people... I mean, you get involved, there's lots of things that go
in between that don't always get edited, you know, within the film, it's all a matter
of that. It must be really difficult to get this... I can't even believe the
movie was even viewed in India, at that time, because it was nothing, it was
like a rehearsal.
…but where we are
today, he's wrong. He may have millions of pounds, he may have his entourage,
whatever he does...
VIRINDER KALRA: He's gone bankrupt!
FAROOK SHAMSER: Has he gone bankrupt?
But now, you know,
hopefully, you know, the archive goes on and it was the beginning of an era
that we've all come together to join, of what we are today. And we can
recognise, and we can appreciate the beauty of being able to
just walk down the street and not worry whether someone just judges you for
your colour or your religion. Just being able to do that is a very special
thing.
This is very odd and
unique: you don't have to be Asian, you don't have to be white, black,
anything. Just this very occasion, for someone to sit and watch me in a
documentary here, without me being, you know, Ravi Shankar or..... a classical
Indian artist, that would even give it the time and space? We've definitely
come a long, long way, baby.
VIRINDER KALRA: Rita, did you wanna...?
RITA WOLF: Yeah,….that
when I see work and, you know, films or, you know, anything, that bounce
between form and content, what I really liked about Avtar Lit and Sunrise Radio,
whatever one might feel about him as a person, just in terms of what he
represents in the film is a wonderful...... structure for the piece. It kind
of, it starts with Sunrise and this voice and you think "Who is
this?", and he weaves in and out of the story in his own way, as does the
music, and I think structurally that was kind of the great device, I thought it
was interesting.
Audience Q1: But it's a bit disingenuous and you have to say the characters that
you've interviewed, none of them would have been listening to Sunrise Radio,
even if Farook did go there and ask them to play...
RITA WOLF: No, no....
FAROOK SHAMSER: But I think, well I was listening, so that was my competition, I wanted
to break them down, I wanted to break those barriers down, I approached
everyone, I approached the BBC, everyone... I would never, never stop. I
called, you know, whoever it was, I called them up. Yeah, but now we're here
where we are today, so, and it's...
VIRINDER KALRA: Well, I mean, I think actually, though, when I watched the film the
first time, I switched off the volume when Avtar Lit came on.
Because I kind of... I
mean, you wouldn't understand the allergy this man causes for a lot of us, so I
really.... I kind of... but I think that, at the same time, only you could make
this film, 'cause you wouldn't know the allergy he causes to so many of us. But
literally I was watching this film and I did switch off his voice, 'cause I
find his voice does bring me out in hives, actually.
So all I'm saying is I
think structurally it works, but I kind of also... I think there's an affective
relationship which we-which Sanjay won't have to that... it's just... and
he can't. So the way I think that structurally it can work,
but there is an emotional response to that which I'm feeling and I'm hearing,
‘cause I kind of share it, right? But in a way I think, well, that's why I like
the film, 'cause in some senses what... you know, Parv Bansal couldn’t have
made the film, none of us could have made the film, because we hate Avtar Lit
so much. I wish he was here, right?
Audience Q1: I mean, I think the film's a good piece of archive, right now. The stuff
about HAC at the end is really good and, you know, have [inaudible]. But I just
feel that...... in terms of trying to construct an identity of British Asians,
which is what these things are always built as, is kind of wrong, in that
context, because...
AUDIENCE: Let somebody
else ask a question, please...
VIRINDER KALRA:: [...] carry on, let's go.
AUDIENCE Q2: I really like
the film, I'd never seen it before... so thank you for making it. I think,
although I know the guys on the panel are trying to, you know, show that things
have changed – and I think they definitely have. In some ways I think a lot of
the opinions and, kind of, the issues articulated in the film are still
relevant today even for younger British Asians, and I think they will probably
continue to be.
But my question was
more about...... is more to Sanjay in terms of... because if you watch like
Bollywood films and mainstream Indian cinema, in terms of the way, NRIs... and
kind of the immigrant, international lives are represented, it's often, to me,
at odds, with the way that most of us actually do live and I think even today
there's still this sort of dream shown in Bollywood cinema of what it is to go
abroad and to make it and to succeed... so I was wondering if in India you
think that is still the general consensus of what it is to be an Indian abroad?
So, the film in South Africa actually looks at a land, housing, "home" – the idea of home, that is so essential. I mean that... so you could do a film about that in-in-in London as well, in 1990. You know, you could have made it about a real estate agent in Wembley, for example. But I didn't. The film in South Africa, actually one of the central characters is an estate agent, called Brian Patel, who calls himself an "estate agent of change", because actually what he's doing is that he's helping Indians buy into previously white areas.
So, each film tried to identify a strand of the immigrant’s... identity, and his existence... and existential questions. And England, I may be completely wrong and naive, but I think that Britain is an over-mediated society, you know. People watch too much television, they read too many newspapers... so it really matters who's on television, what... you know... India's getting there, the Indian middle class is getting there, but I was very struck how critical it was for people...... this space. So, like I said, this was also the early '90s...... you know, there are people who had broken down the doors and become achievers, Hanif Kureishi, Salman Rushdie... so many people, they were already.
But I wanted to be in that space, but I wanted to be in the margins of that space, you know. I wanted to be in the ... Rita was a little coy about her comment when she saw the film 25 years ago, because I reminded her that her email said to me that after watching the film she felt very sad, and she felt it was like Peter Pan and the Lost Boys, you know, because there is something of that going on, you know.
So...... I mean, what do Indians make of Britain, or British Asians or how Bollywood represents it? Quite honestly I am not interested in either debunking it or dealing with it, I'm much more interested in... to me the core of my filmmaking practice is... “how am I understanding it?”. Like, you know, am I understanding something, and how do I share it with an audience? In a complicated... in a way, where the... my film and my filmmaking practice is as complicated as what I think of what's going on. I do not want to simplify. That is the television documentary film, you know, which, within the first 15 minutes you know that smoking cannabis is bad for you, and then for the other 30 minutes they just keep reminding you that smoking cannabis is bad for you, so in that sense I'm not interested in that kind of filmmaking.
Audience Q2 : Thanks.
Audience Q3: How did you come to this understanding of your identity?... as someone who is coming from a different culture, is there any experience opportunity that you can suggest for young children of other cultures to face these vulnerabilities that they have?
FAROOK SHAMSER: So, how do I identify cultural identity when I was young...... the way that we all grow up. We live at home, we eat beautiful food, we mix our food with everything else, we learn a bit about our culture and... you know, it's to feel Asian and proud, in a way, that you kind of have to do it. I mean, I personally just use music, which I was obsessed with. My father was a flautist, we used to sell music in Brick Lane. So I was quite fortunate that I was brought up around that.
I'd go to concerts at the Bangladesh new year in Trafalgar Square where my father used to play, probably played at the Royal Albert Hall with some Bollywood headliner what have you. So I was very lucky. Now how I influence it...... I think that it's up to them, you let them lead the way but, you know, you can remind them of old things.
I actually wanted to bring my young boys today but they couldn't do it – one's 8 and the other one's 5, and they come with me. And slowly, slowly I start to, you know-you know, there are no children here, but I take them to events, I try and encourage them to get into things. They can, you know, they can watch TV for a little amount of time of what they want, of what they're into, but then I try to play them some nice music, and I try to influence them with different things. I cannot push them and force them, 'cause the worst thing is... I think we were both very fortunate we had understanding parents, which was very strange those days. It was like "Don't let the relatives know that you're actually doing this", and it was quite a... or, you know, your neighbours, it was quite a difficult time to actually just... to-to come out and be Asian and do what you do. But I was very fortunate..... difficult question, I don't really know how to answer it, but just-just give them love and let them encourage themselves.
VIRINDER KALRA: Is there a question here?
AUDIENCE Q4: The question of identity as seen through the culture... is a bit of a highjack from sociologists. They have reduced it to any observation that you-you follow a group and whatever they do is their culture. But that is a bit different from what culture used to mean not so long ago, and that meant the finer aspects of a civilisation. And it seems we are floating in-between this liquid situation where sometimes we mean... works by Nazrul Islam and, maybe, Bolshoi Ballet... and also whether... whether...... arranged marriages are a culture. Now... I find it a matter of dispute as regards to the identity of culture... being a fixed box. And if that is defined as your culture, if you accept anything from outside that fixture, you have to throw something away. I recall, several years ago, I read an article...... in the Guardian, by... Pakistani journalist of Pakistani origin, he acquired some interest in Western pop-rock music...
VIRINDER KALRA: Sir, a question would be nice.
AUDIENCE Q4: Yes, Sarfraz Mansour says at the same time that his- father says... "Well, that was not our culture". Now the question is: have I lost my culture if I have appreciated Maya Plisetskaya's performance and Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, and if I admire the works of Ingmar Bergman and Sartre and Beethoven? Have I lost anything of my culture, or is it possible for me to expand my culture?
RITA WOLF: Absolutely...
VIRINDER KALRA : Shall we just take a few more questions, 'cause we don't have much time and then we can just wind up... let the panel... a few more people...
There's one more behind...
AUDIENCE Q5: Thank you, Sanjay, I am quite impressed with what you've done and I think, just to pick up from what my colleague here was saying, to defend these sociologists, I think things have moved on a lot. Identities are not anymore fixed, malleable. They are iterative, they are-they are dynamic, they're porous they're constructed, there's no identity out there somewhere anymore now, and social sciences have moved on with that. And what I would like to say, following this Sanjay, is perhaps it might be good to invite you back to do a re-take... how the characters in your old film have shifted in the ways they negotiated...
VIRINDER KALRA: Yes, that's true...
AUDIENCE Q5: And also the narratives have changed back in India through which this film would be received – dominant narratives at both ends have shifted – and so have been the subversive narratives across [inaudible]...... that might be a very interesting way to have it as a sequel, both for teaching and learning. Thank you.
RITA WOLF: That's a brilliant idea, yeah...
AUDIENCE Q6: Sanjay,... did you see a lot of different artists, or how did you choose or find these particular ones, coming from outside Britain?
SANJAY KAK: Yeah. So, I did meet a lot of people...... but I think for a documentary filmmaker... it's extremely important, whether you're dealing with individuals or you're dealing with a group, to figure out very quickly that "Are they receptive to what I'm asking?", you know. So, I met many... many young Asians who were, you know, in the arts...
RITA WOLF: All my friends told me that they'd met this director from India called Sanjay Kak...
SANJAY KAK: But it was very critical for me. So, like, Farook today acknowledged for the first time in 25 years that he and his brother gave me a very hard time. And they did, because they were unsure, you know. They didn't want to say no, but they never took me home, which really was something I would've liked to do. But it was this little dance between yes/no/yes/no, you know. With Rita, on the other hand, you know, from the first go I knew this is a person who wants to talk. This is a person with whom I can have this conversation.
With Parv, again, Parv Bansal, and HAC, they were willing to give me access to all kinds of slightly personal spaces, but Parv is a very good actor, so he's always performing, you know. He's always performing in the film – I know that he never drops his guard. And so even his off-handed comment is a sharply observed one, he knows what effect he's gonna play.
So, to answer your question the choice of which characters to stay with was based on my sense of... “is this person interested in talking to us?”. And is interested in a very fundamental way, that is, that are they going to say something which I don't know? 'Cause for me it's pointless, going to film with people where I know what they are going to say, because, then... why don't I just write about it, you know?
But the opportunity that a film gives you of stubbing your toes against the unexpected, saying "Wow!"... see, for example, Farook is so contradictory within that same 30 seconds, and that's am-wonderful. For me that's why those bits are there. Because, you know, he wants to, but he doesn't want to... and, you know, and I think that's so important for a 21-year-old trying to make it in the world of music... how can you not be full of contradictions, you know?
So yeah, so that was basically what... OK, to put it crudely, you're looking for a certain vulnerability in the people you wanna film. A vulnerability, cause vulnerability leads to openness, you know... too much cultural capital and too much self confidence leads to a hard exterior, you know. So you need-you need... you need people to be in a supple state...and then you can have a real conversation. This is very early work, by the way, I'm a little bit embarrassed by it…
VIRINDER KALRA: OK, we do have to stop on that, but actually I think that was a very nice summary and I'd like to... please join me again in a round of applause.
We'll probably be in the bar if people want to carry on conversations, but I think we have to leave quickly from the room, because another film is coming in, I assume, so...
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Still from "This Land, My Land, Eng-Land!". (Left to right) Sanjay Kak, Farook Shamser, Rita Wolf & Virinder Kalra. 2017
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